Thursday 26 March 2015

Notes on Jesolo Training Videos-now with more Fierce 5!

NOTE- Although there is a free stream tomorrow, it appears the Italian Gymnastics Federations are forbidden to archive it.

Cannot wait for this competition, admittedly mainly for seeing how the US girls are shaping up as they try out new upgrades etc. and of course, new seniors to make their debut internationally. The perfect small competition which allows a huge number of competitors. I'm quite sad Nia Dennis is not there, and indeed am worried for her in general. A lot of injuries, a lot of inconsistency when she is competing. Such enormous potential in her...

Victoria Nyugen is IT on beam. Fabulous. Not that she was bad before or anything but she really makes a splash here. Gorgeous Chinese-like precision on her elements, HUGE leaps too. It is sadly unusual to see big amplitude on fully split leaps among the US girls but no fears here, lots of amplitude as well as gorgeous looking leaps. Stunning BHS-LOSO-LOSO, turn combination and switch leap-Onodi-sheep. Don't ask me what her start value is though. It's a very steady routine too, she had a bit of a bobble after a switch ring is all. Just lacking some cohesive flow, but then, everyone does really.

It's hard to tell from the angle how much height she gets on her DTY, it doesn't look big anyway. Very clean though.

Her bars are boring. Jump to dead hang no no noooo and she stays on the high bar too long then. It's not acceptable unless you're doing killer pirouettes in sequence. She's clean and still young, it could be a nice routine in progress.

Bailie Key's bars are looking unsurprisingly strong. The Ricna-Pak is really a highlight. As usual with Bailie, any errors seem to be glaring, because the body of her work is so good. She hits a few handstands short and her form on her dismount isn't the best, the tuck is too loose and her feet are an issue. Although it is finally her time to shine, she's not had the best of years with an injury and all that growth to get used to, so it's best if she doesn't push herself I think.

Her DTY is definitely lacking the star-power she showed with it last year, it's a bit flat and her legs aren't as straight. Perhaps not a struggle to get around, but not the easiest for her. Again, no need to push for an amanar or anything at this stage and potentially aggravate an injury. Slow and steady.

Continuing the theme, her beam is a bit lacklustre also. Quite a low landing on the dismount, bobbles on the low arabian, layout as un-layout-like as ever. I really want to see her with a composition like Victoria's here. In terms of preparation, Bailie has a good bit to go. I'm sure she'll bounce back from being out for so long.

Simone Biles is her usual self on floor. I'm still getting used to her first pass, it's so good in the air and she landed this one two miles in front of the casual. Only small bounces from her tumbling. I'm curious about that last pass-she landed the full-in with her chest fully upright and high and I still think she could upgrade it. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if she unleashes that this summer.

Beam wasn't the steadiest, slight break on the aerial-wolf and after her free cartwheel, and a dodgy uncertain-looking one in her second leap series. BHS-LOSO-LOSO and the killer dismount were amazing as always. All of her leaps are good just not high enough in the air grrrr. I expect to see a much more solid routine when it counts.

I'm very curious about when she will debut the Mustafina dismount, it's the ideal competition if it's ready. No sign of it in the video I watched. Handstands weren't great but the routine is fine. Nothing special, but worthy of a good score. Short and to the point.

Laurie Hernandez sure enjoys stalders! Zippy routine with a nice pencil line throughout most of it. Great handstands too.

Her beam feels quite long for some reason, and it looks a bit like hard work. That's training for you and one video of many routines, so hopefully she exudes a bit more sass and energy during competition. Her leaps start off great although could do with more height, but then her back leg flags and isn't as bothered towards the end, which is a pity. Lands her dismount with her back horizontal and other elements like her LOSO are landed with her back quite low too-they don't have the same lift as Victoria's for instance. It's a strong routine all the same, but could be great if her skills were bigger.

Kyla's double front bars dismount is my favourite thing. Surprise factor! It's lovely too. It's good to see her get her combination game back, I was quite doubtful of how much her back would allow her to do on bars. She has one handstand that was at about 45 degrees, which is so weird to see from her.


Kyla on floor...AKA the sassmonster!! Her new routine is a HUGE improvement. I know I tend to be harsh on her so it must be great. Her choreography is really strong and I love the music. Some really great movements-staccato-like. This is what we needed to see from her years ago. I love being pleasantly surprised. Tumbling was clean and unremarkable, so low in difficulty sadly.

I can't get over Aly in non Hava Nagila shocker. When the music and opening pose becomes so familiar, it's quite jarring. I like her music though. In unsurprising news, her dance is uninspiring. I'd hoped to see more influence from her DWTS days...maybe if her partner choreographed for her we'd see it. Anyway...holy tumbling! Double arabian punchfront is in, although she went slightly out of bounds on the punchfront. I can't tell if it's tucked or not, it's very loose...mostly laid out, late tuck. Not only did she stick her Dos Santos, she planted it through the floor like Chellsie Memmel's closing double pike at Beijing Olympic Trials. I freaking love sticks like that, so good. The double layout on the other hand was a bit scrappy form wise, nothing wrong with its dynamics though. Hopefully she can keep her legs and feet straighter when she gets more used to it. Her twisting leaps were um, utterly uncreditable. Such reluctance of the back leg to leave the floor!

Gabby also has got her tumbling game on! It looks very easy for her. Double arabian-bounce forward, full-in, stuck, double pike-big bounce back, double tuck-bounce back. It's good to see extra energy in a comeback routine. A very welcome music change but the choreography is not great and she looks totally absent..hopefully this can develop a bit but I don't have high hopes.

Her bars had some issues, but hey, it's a tough event to get back and we can't really judge off one video. She had a form break on top the bar, and had to muscle a few times again on top of the bar to get through the routine. Lovely straight dismount and fabulous piked has lost the crookedness! 

And that's all I was able to see. So looking forward to just about everyone, but especially the comeback queens. Who and what are you most looking forward to? How many points will Simone win the AA by? Will the US wear pink, pink or pink? Can the Undertaker beat Bray Wyatt? Wrestlemania is this weekend too!


  1. Omg The comment about them wearing pink pink or pink is soo funny I'm just so tired of that color on those girls! They look fantastic in whatever they wear but dang pink ALL THE TIME!

    On Victoria Nyugen I don't have gymnastike gold but an american with Chinese like beam abilities is interesting..Cant wait so do you think she can challenge norah? I also heard that Victoria has a dynamic floor routine. Can't wait for that either

    I'm also so sad Nia isn't there so much potential and I actually saw her as a huge Rio threat. I'm also sad for Rachel Gowey not being in attendance I love her gymnastics and sad to think how successful she could have been at last years worlds..

    Bailie Key I really have high expectations from. Soooo sad that she is struggling on getting back to normal this could've been her IT year. To see her feet on her DTY is also sad because her PAC rims and jesolo vault was much superior to how it is now.

    I heard Alys beam is better than ever I am personally a huge aly beam fan she was just so sturdy in 2012.

    Any words on Maddie Desch in training I to be honest never took her serious but her Camp video blew me away on how good she has become she looks awesome.

    Reagan Smith!! Omg I still believe she is a better version of Finnegan huge Beam and Floor potential and more sturdy on bars.

    1. I don't either. Unfortunately, that company being the way they are (did you see the polite but firm request for Lauren of the gymternet to take down her posts with the gifs? Despite gifs being governed by fair use..) not only do other means of viewing them not stay up long, they cannot be shared.

      I think Victoria can easily do so. She's just fantastic. I admit I'm not the biggest Norah fan, I like her, but I don't see the hype really.

      Rachel, yesss. I'm a sucker for pretty Chow's gymnastics. I'm hopeful that Bailie will be back to her good self by summer. It's a good time to ease herself back into competition now.

      I haven't seen her beam, but I HAVE just seen her floor. It's so strange to see her without Hava Nagila, I've seen older routines of hers but I never knew her then. I'll update in a bit with new notes.

      I've heard nothing about Maddie other than holy bars connections! I'm excited to see her, I think she could be an Aly solid valuable type. And one than can bring in a bars score too.

      Ragan is a mystery to me. The goods are there, it will be interesting to see.

  2. Can't wait to see nguyen in action. Don't have access to gymnastike but I saw her 2014 PG day 2 routine which she scored the highest out of all juniors. So I knew she definitely has potential there. She is a tiny gymnast even by gymnast standard so it's great that she was able to upgrade to a DTY as she was only doing a FTY last year. I really want her to get a nice bars routine. She's not a power gymnast but definitely got the elegance....

    As far as bailie hope she gets back to where she was soon. She was doing so great last year till she got injured.

    Great to see aly still has her beam. good to see gabby is getting there also. I am disappointed that Mckayla is still sitting out. I think marta should invite Mckayla to a camp and maybe when she's there reunited again with gabby aly and kyla it may light her fire again.... after London, I did think that Jordyn would probably call it. then probably gabby. then maybe aly because she's relatively older so I am very pleasantly surprised to see gabby and aly so seriously on track back. I thought Mckayla wouldn't for one sec have any hesistation making it back and she kinda prove it in 2013. So just a little disappointed right now....

    It's like 2011 right now in this quad... What does everyone think of where gabby and aly is right now relative to where they were in 2011? better or worse.. I am glad they are not trying to pull a nastia. I hope Mckayla is not going to try to pull a nastia either bc it won't work.... if we don't see Mckayla by nationals I think that's it for her ;(

    On the topic of bailie growth spur, just currous if anyone can track down where she is in last year camp line up compared to this year and maybe compared it to simone (since simone doesn't have any recent growth spur).... Kyla had some MAJOR growth spur so would be interesting to see how much bailie growth spur is..

    Would it be safe to say from what we have seen so far that after simone and co. retire to ncaa, us team would still be on top? If so , I am wondering if it would still be a big gap....

  3. Does anyone know where I can watch the broadcast by the Italian Federation? Or anywhere where the competition can be watched for free?


    2. Thank you so much!

  4. Lauren Hopkins is live tweeting the senior aa at jesolo and she has the results on gymternet. Looks like Biles is first, followed by Key (59.5), Raisman (59.1!), Douglas (58.9!) and Baumann (58.7). Congrats to Aly and Gabby on their first major competition.

  5. I'm not worried the haters and naysayers can hate on bailie but she'll get the last laugh at the end of this year and next she'll have her armarar done then we'll see who's on fire. Her first meet back since her injuries and problems and she got a 59.5 with problems on ub and bb witch could have been better and she'll have the armarar down

  6. So gutted about Kyla Ross today. I was so excited to see her floor routine. Hopefully she is okay. Aly was so impressive on every event today, nevermind her leaps and toe point. Gabby did really good as well, but her bars really worried me. It looked really laboured and she was muscling it. Bailie was amazing as well. I love her new bar routine.

  7. Wow, simone scored over 62 again. As well as getting the highest scores in all 4 events again!!! I guess there is no slowing down anytime soon for her... I hope she will embrace UB a little more seeing that she definitely can put up some decent score on it...

    So sad for kyla on fx. she was doing so well till then...

    I think aly and gabby answer any haters question of the legits of their comeback.... Not quite at their 2012 peak yet but getting very close, esp aly on fx...

    Great to see key getting 2nd. She definitely could be better on UB and BB. I do hope she will continue to improve even if she doesn't beat simone... I think she will give larisa and Aliya a real fight for the money for 2nd place in AA...

    1. I agree with everything you have to say. There is honestly no stopping Biles at this point and really, the world will be fighting for 2nd place. Assuming they can all come back from their injuries and come back at full strength, it will be Key, Mustafina and Iordache fighting for the silver and bronze this year.

      I am very content with Raisman and Douglas' comeback! They seem very strong but definitely have a lot of work to do. Douglas' bars are not good! She muscled through a lot of her routine and those handstands weren't hit fully even once I believe. Raisman needs to work on her form. I can see she not only has all her skills back but also has upgrades but she isn't super clean. She has lots of form errors on BB and FX especially on the layout portions of her routines. Her bars is obviously not super clean but I doubt there is hope for that anymore. However, for it being their first competition, they show a lot of promise.

      I am also sad about Kyla. I'm just happy she didn't get injured.

  8. Anyone know what kyla fx d score was? Assuming she didn't make any serious mistake, would she have been able to at least get 3rd? or possibly had any chance of catching key?

    1. Well - her credited d score was 4.7 b/c she didn't complete a number of elements. I believe she was going for a d score of somewhere between 5.7 and 5.9. If she would have gotten a 14 (which is doable for her and she can do better as well), she would have gotten third - with just a 14.25 I think she would have gotten second. So the rest of her meet was great!

    2. she lost 0.5 from an unfulfilled requirement, 0.3 from her switch ring, 0.1 from her stag. so her d score could have been a 5.6. i think that she could have easily scored 14.4 had she been clean. hence, the 2nd spot could have been awarded to her.

  9. Links to all US routines for those who missed them

  10. To be honest I am not really bothered about Kyla's fall, without the fall and the errors here and there, she could have placed 3rd. Sometimes consistent gymnasts like her should fall in small meets like this one. Her position as an all around gymnast might be in trouble but her bars and beam are so consistent and clean that USA will still need her for Glasgow. As for now, following today's events and looking at everyone's potential Biles, Key and Ross are shoe in for Glasgow. These three could probably win the worlds team gold medal on their own. Since all the other americans are pretty much all arounders the other 3 spots are for the girls with key events with which they can medal individually and even increase the chances of USA further securing the gold.

    So the other three spots are most likely going to be between 2 specialists and another all arounder.

    Here is my analysis:
    Aly is most likely going to win an individual medal than Gabby at this stage and where Gabby is good Key, Ross and Biles can fill in for her. In reality Bailie will be Gabby and Aly's main competition for a team spot as all her events are almost as good or better than Gabby and Aly's key events. So if Aly cleans her floor and beam routines and consistently perform them with her planned d-score(floor) she will be part of the team as a floor specialist.

    Gabby's return was so business-like unlike Nastia in 2012. It was commendable but her current position as a worlds team member is still questionable. Gabby's chances are just as good as the rest of the girls that do not have specialist's events. She can increase her odds of getting in if she scores consistently in the low 15s on bars and beam in her upcoming competitions. Her chances will be mainly based on how good Locklear can return from her injury.

    So I would probably have Simone, Bailie, Kyla and Aly for now.

    The other 2 will be selected on their chances of challenging for an individual world medal at the moment the only options are Skinner (VT) & Locklear(UB).

    I really liked Alyssa's beautiful line and projection and with a bit of polish she will look picture perfect at every angle but she really only has an average difficulty on beam to be a medal contender. I would love to see her at Worlds but her chances are slim unless if rumours are true that she has been training the Amanar and performed it at camp. I hope WOGA can transform her to a really good beam specialist before the Nationals.

  11. That's the problem US is facing right now with too many good AAers. It's almost crazy funny lol b/c no other federation right now can count on more than 1 or at most 2 top AA scoring above 58.5... If kyla didn't fall she would have definitely got over 58.5, making it 6 US gymnasts with above 58.5 potentials...

    So US has at least 3 good AA with FX medal potentials. I can see they having a real good shot at winning 2 FX medals at worlds.

    As for BB, US doesn't have the highest d score right now but they have great consistency. Much of BB results a lot of time depend on which leo still stands at the end. I can see them winning at least 1 medals, but they definitely can be challenged by Romanian and Russian due to others' higher d score if everyone hits and doesn't fall..

    As for VT, only simone and skinner doing 2 vaults so if you want to win 2 VT medals you have to include skinner on the team. At least skinner can put in a somewhat decent Fx score in qualification even with her form problems. I am sure we will see at least 1 more amanar by rio if not by worlds to keep the US well ahead of anyone else in term of team vault score.

    As of right now Locklear is the only one seems to have high enough d score on UB to get a bronze. So almost have to include her if US to have any chance of medaling in UB. I just don't see anyone else on this team having high enough d score and good enough form on UB as locklear to challenge for bronze.

    So I completely agree they would probably almost have to include locklear and skinner to maximize the total number of medals...

    As far as trying to win 2 AA medals, that's one of marta least concerning problem... As far as winning team gold, they could have probably field 2 teams capable of winning gold based on today results.

  12. hmm, so will there be a live feed for EF jesolo? there is not a live feed countdown on FGI site like for the senior team and AA... :(. If anyone got the link for live feed please post. Also is it like at 4:30 am EST?


    live jesolo ef final if anyone up watching early

  14. Seriously, the world team gold, AA gold and silver, FX-gold and VT-medal are for USA to lose. I find it hard to believe that US no longer have an apparent weakness as a team. They can send 3 teams of 3 members in each and they can finish 1,2,3. The Americans could be used by FIG as an example that a 4 member team is still feasible for the 2020 Olympics. The only current nation that can fit perfectly with that model is USA and they will be far more dominating that way. However, I would rather have a 5 team member format and watch better gymnasts during the Olympics.

    If FIG wants to be very inclusive they should do it at worlds, world cup and Olympic test events; Olympics is meant to be for the best of the best! If they want to have more specialists from countries that do not have a team, FIG can run special qualification events for them. I don't really understand FIG, for example, if Chusovitina wants to be in the Olympics next year, she should finish at least top 3 at worlds this year! This is just simply barbaric. Why couldn't they award an automatic individual qualification for the finalists this year just as they do for the team? They can do the same test event in 2012 for further individuals who do not have a team and it should be for the top gymnasts of their nation who have just turned senior ,have managed to improve their routines etc... They can increase the number of qualification spots during the Olympic qualification itself and hence girls will have had the opportunity to compete at the Olympics before the best are filtered out for the finals just like during worlds. FIG is just being lazy, its not hard at all to add one more day of qualification!

    I also think that the two per country rule should exempt gymnasts who score above 57.50 and 88 on WAG and MAG AA respectively and scores above the 90th percentile for individual events.This doesn't discriminate any country but instead let the top dogs fight for medals and average athletes fight for a spot in the finals. A better solution for the tie breaker is allowing tying gymnast to perform again and who ever performs better wins if IOC and FIG are really stingy for medals and will continue this way forward. Seriously, they wouldn't lose millions for an additional 10 minutes of time extension.

    USA and China have managed to break the USSR and Romania's dominance over the years without the FIG rules; GB, Canada,Australia & Vietnam have improved in the previous years and they have produced individuals that have medalled in important events because they were actually good and not because of the retarded two per country rule. No matter how inclusive one wants to be if a country doesn't have the right coaches and equipments regardless of how inspired they all are, there wouldn't be a progress.
    So I don't understand why FIG has to make exclusive rules to be more fucking inclusive.
    FIG can provide free trainings for coaches from smaller countries and give them the right knowledge to coach. Each small country should be forced by FIG to have a national training camp and use its influence to help subsidise for equipments through sponsorships and other methods. In the long run, the sponsors can benefit from it if FIG and the national team can help sustain the growth of gymnastics in those countries. Only by then smaller countries can train and come up with good routines to challenge the top dogs and it will make sense in the future to have a 4 team member if there are a lot of good specialists and national teams.

    1. actually Chuso can still qualify to rio without top 3 finish in 2015 vt :)... she will have to do AA in 2016 test event. that's a lot of work for just a chance to do vault but very doable for her... I m actually cheering for her to make her 7th Olympic and she deserves to be there as one of vt best...

    2. Does that mean that if a good specialist who is not an all arounder and does not finish top 3 at worlds wont get to compete in the Olympics?

    3. unfortunately so if their federation can't qualify as team and if they can't finish top 3 the yr before.... unfair I know. :(

    4. I disagree that the Olympics is meant to be the best of the best. It's meant to be about the best in each country against the best of other countries. The whole point of the olympics is to bring together people from around the world. Other sports limit the number of athletes from each country - it's just that often those qualifications for country level cuts are done before the Olympics so you don't tend to see those athletes in comparison to those who made it to the finals from other countries. But I'm supportive of limiting the number of athletes per country who get to compete at the Olympics - the spirit of the Olympics requires it.

    5. Anon- 12:12. I agree that Olympics is meant to bring people together. If bringing Olympics is about bringing people together then they should increase the number of places for pre-qualifications before the Olympics.All athletes should still be able to participate during qualifications but if they are not good enough then they must not move forward to the finals. This is where I agree with John on this. I believe that simply being part of the Olympic qualification is an experience itself and every athelete should be credited for that however athletes who have a good shot for medals shouldn't be filtered out otherwise the medals may not reflect the true rankings.


      Straight shoot directly from chuso herself on what she needs to do to get to her 7th Olympics, i.e. hope for a medal at worlds but she is training for AA qual in rio also... Hope she will make it some way...

  15. USA can win any day by just performing the rather simple DTY as no other nations can execute it as clean as the Americans. Russia's vaulting is just as atrocious as the American's lack of amplitude in their leaps. Most of the girls now have 6.1 bars and beam in difficulty and they are executed well. This should serve as a good base for potential upgrades for the Olympics. Floor is simply America's territory as a team and individually. They can have a floor line up in the near future with 7.0, 6.5, 6.4 SV. What US is currently lacking on are all arounders that are real specialists on bars and beam that can actually challenge for gold without relying on errors from others.

    I hope Bailie can get back to her old BB routine and clean it for a legit medal challenge. There is no doubt that she wont be in the team in addition to Biles. She fits perfectly on every event and i believe that the rest of the team will be selected on how good Bailie really maximises her floor and beam. The third spot will be for another AA who is preferably good on bars and can post decent scores on other events. Ross is the perfect piece for this.

    The more aggressive Bailie becomes on BB and FX, the 4th spot will be given to Skinner just for VT and she can also replace Kyla on FX for the team and the other 2 are for anyone with the best UB and/or can further maximise the team total.

    On the other hand if Bailie does not get really aggressive on BB and FX, Raisman will get the 4th spot. Regardless of this Skinner will still be called for VT as there are no other specialist that are as almost secured as her in terms of getting an individual medal and the last spot is for an UB or BB worker

    1. I think most commenters agree w you at this point that as long as skinner keeps up her skill on vt and Locklear on ub, they have good chances making 2015 worlds as specialists to maximize number of event medals.... that should hopefully free them up to concentrate more training on their pet events...

      Locklear is about the best hope US has right now for bronze ub..... she can possibly be used in qual in bb if absolutely needed but likely not...

      no one else on US team right now aside from Simone is doing 2 vt as well as no one else throwing amanars yet (though that 2nd point will likely change) so skinner is needed to maximize number of medals in vt... skinner is also useful to use on FX during qual....and if she could ever clean up her FX a bit more she is capable of 15 here also...

      so 2015 worlds team most likely will have 2 specialists to maximize number of individual medals... sucks bc that means you have to leave home at least 1 good AA from jesolo...

  16. Wow, that was one fine jesolo. I don't think we have such an exciting jesolo in yrs. This yr is actually the first time I followed it closely bc of the simone, aly, gabby, and key factors mostly and it didn't disappoint. Exciting toward even the end.

    Surprising sub of bailie in bars EF by marta or so I though initially. That prevented a simone podium sweep. However, it does kinda make sense in a way that although simone can put up some good score even on her "weak" ub event, it's always good to be able to give her and her shoulder a break whenever possible. In reality, as the US starting to have a stacked ub lineup, she will most likely just either be the lead off bar (if they're not able to have 3 solid bars for whatever reason) or that her bars won't be needed in team final.. So I am glad simone was graceful enough to let bailie had a chance at it. And let's face it, I don't think she argue too much about it anyway given how she always has a little adverse feeling about it... And bailie definitely took advantage of the opportunity and didn't disappoint. I think we can also see here a little of marta strategy of testing if bailie can be used in a bars lineup possibly in team final... Congrat to kyla for a well done job on ub and finishing on a high note...

    aly fx ef was slightly disappointing that she went oob on her first pass, but that first pass is extra hard no matter what. She came really close to being oob during team final anyway, but was able to keep it in. Normally, you could just say try something else safer more consistent, but it is such a great original pass that I think she definitely should keep at it and make it more consistent. wonder if there's any other smaller upgrade that can improve her fx even just slightly more....

    bauchman beam was a little down from team final but that's how it is sometimes with beam... That actually open the door a little for aly and gabby kyla and key in this area...

    Really can't say much otherwise about simone fx.... 16.05 internationally? I guess the only thing anyone can say is will we see a 7.0 sv by worlds?

    I will have to go back and check out some more routines as I was sleeping like everyone else but overall this was one exciting jesolo.... It will be such a long time until classics to see US girls again, in meantime, will just have to keep myself entertained with their foreign competition till then... although eu champ just wont be the same without larisa and musty...